A person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) displays patterns of deviant behaviour that can create carnage for those around them (spouse, children, parents, siblings, friends, colleagues, peers, etc). Narcissistic Victim Abuse is abuse that has been caused by someone with this personality disorder. The NPD is not often medically diagnosed, so that the narcissistic individual goes undetected in society (home, work-place, organizations, social settings) and the victim’s plight unrecognised.
A person with NPD has an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for attention and admiration, and a strong sense of entitlement. They believe they are superior and have little regard for the feelings of others. As a child, a healthy self-esteem (true self) did not develop in the narcissist so they built up defences to create a ‘false self’ in public. This is akin to wearing a public mask. Wearing the mask is not only emotionally exhausting, it also means that the narcissist is constantly on guard at being found out. They become overly sensitive to narcissistic injury which is any perceived threat (real or imagined) to the narcissist’s self-esteem or self-worth. In order to maintain their illusion and protect their ‘false self’ they seek narcissistic supply from unsuspecting victims.
The narcissist views people as objects which can feed their needs (known as ‘sources of narcissistic supply’). The narcissist will use any tactic, without guilt, empathy or conscience, to make sure they get their narcissistic supply and their needs are met. Narcissistic supply comes from public attention such as fame, celebrity, notoriety, or infamy or private attention such as admiration, flattery, acclaim, fear, or even repulsion. Regular bearers of narcissistic supply include the spouse, children, friends, colleagues, partners and clients. Anything that acts as a status symbol that attracts attention and admiration for the narcissist is narcissistic supply, for example, a flashy car, expensive property, designer clothes, being a member of a church, cult, club, or a business.
With an inflated sense of their own superiority, power and control, the narcissist renders themselves susceptible to all sorts of obsessions, compulsions, and addictions, for example, addiction to: narcissistic supply, grandiosity, control, power, rage, perfectionism, attention, fame etc. The devastating impact of these addictions on their significant others can result in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome. Most victims present with no idea about what has happened to them.
Narcissistic abuse is insidious because the abuse is covert, cunning and indirect. Narcissists go to great pains to avoid being observed publicly as being abusive. The Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde behaviour creates fear, distress, confusion, inner turmoil, and chaos for the victim. The constant ‘walking on eggshells’ and attempting to avoid further conflict can be crippling. To complicate matters a narcissist is rarely medically diagnosed and often goes undetected in society (home, work, organisations, and social settings).
For whatever the reason the victim entered the Dance of the Narcissist (a behaviour known as Co-Dependency) so that in the dance there was both: 1) a pleaser/fixer (victim) and; 2) a taker/controller (narcissist/addict).
Victims present when they feel like they can’t cope. They are unaware that they have been living or working in a war zone. No-one has mentioned Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) or narcissistic abuse to them. Victims of this narcissistic abuse often display a set, or cluster, of symptoms due to this physical, mental, emotional or spiritual abuse. In Narcissistic Victim Syndrome you are looking for a cluster of symptoms to emerge, many are the symptoms of trauma (avoidance behaviour, loss of interest, feeling detached, sense of a limited future, sleeping or eating difficulties, irritability, hyper-vigilance, easily startled, flashbacks, hopelessness, psychosomatic illnesses, self-harming, thoughts of suicide etc). Narcissistic abuse victims express feelings of humiliation and shame, and apt to self-blame. They have learned to take responsibility for the narcissist’s behaviour because they are constantly told the problem is their fault. Some victims develop Stockholm Syndrome and want to support, defend, and love the abuser despite what they have gone through.
Victims tend to ‘dissociate’ or detach from their emotions, body, or surroundings. Living in a war zone where all forms of power and control are used against you (intimidation; emotional, physical and mental abuse; isolation, economic abuse, sexual abuse, coercion, control etc), the threat of abuse is always present. Dissociation is an automatic coping mechanism against overwhelming stress.
Victims are often victimized by more than one person. They often internalize that something is wrong with them, that they deserve this kind of abuse, and then resign themselves to their fate. Victims may not have reached their potential in their personal or professional lives because they always have to stand in the shadow of their aggressor, and not upstage them. They learn to live in the shadows without knowing why.
Victims of narcissistic abuse often appear uncertain of themselves, constantly seeking clarification that they haven’t made a mistake or misheard something. Confidence may be so low that they have trouble making simple decisions. They will not be aware that this is caused by an abusive technique called ‘gaslighting’. Gaslighting is a technique of psychological abuse used by narcissists to instil confusion and anxiety in their victim to the point where they no longer trust their own memory, perception or judgment. With gaslighting, the victim initially notices that something happens that is odd, but they don’t believe it. This moves to defence as the victim fights against the manipulation. Confusion sets in after incessant comments such as: ‘You’re too sensitive’, ‘You’re crazy’, ‘You’re imagining things’ or ‘I never said that.’ Gradually, the victim cannot trust their own perceptions and doubt themselves. This often leads to depression. Broken and unable to trust themselves, they isolate themselves further. The victim now doubts everything about themselves, their thoughts and opinions, their ideas and ideals. They become co-dependent on the abuser for their reality.
Victims need validation and education about what has happened to them. They need information about the medical condition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and its toxicity in relationships. They need education about how they have contributed to their situation through co-dependence. They need therapy to deal with symptoms. They will need support to remove themselves from their narcissistic relationship, and to not repeat the cycle of abuse in their next relationship. One of their greatest challenges may come from not being believed by significant others, either because these others have not seen the private face of the narcissist or because they themselves are in the narcissist’s thrall.
82 comments ↓
Wow I was really hooked by this blog when I read the bit about “your crazy, your imagining things, or I didn’t say that”. it is exactly the words I hear day in day out. thanks for this I will work on staying strong and not being a victim!
The more I learn about narcissism and its extreme form of NPD the more I realise it is such a convoluted and complicated condition, made worse by its invisibility in our society. Please share this with anyone you feel may relate to Narcissistic Victim Syndrome. It may be the first step to validation.
All the best Rose!
I think I am a mother of two NDP children (I have three children).
I read that I indeed may be the source of this disorder (e.g. I was too strict/did not show love/demanded too much/did not acknowledge achievments and so on.)
I am full of guilt over this, I try to overcompensate, I feel deprressed, have thoughts of suicide – but to mask it as a car accident so as not to harm them.
Life is becoming unbearable, is there anything I can do?
I believe I had a ndp mother as well but this I solved by severing all unnecessary contact with her, something I cannot possibly do with my own children.
Is it my fault? Any advice?
Thank you.
Hi Danielle,
Firstly, I must say I think you are amazing for coming this far in trying to understand your family dynamics and coping with everything. From my experience, NPD is poorly understood and often goes unrecognised, so to have some knowledge and insights into this is a great thing.
Secondly, because you have this insight it means you have empathy for your family which is also a great thing. And, no, you should not feel guilty. I don’t know how old your children are but until you seek and receive the right sort of help I feel it’s too soon to sever a relationship with them. Go to your doctor and ask for a referral to a psychiatrist/psychologist/counsellor who has experience with NPD. Join online communities to speak to others who also have experienced NPD. Find out how they’ve dealt with things and coped. I’ve found these online groups remarkably supportive.
Thirdly, this is NOT your fault. You have been drawn into this crazy life simply because of your birth. Everyone develops coping mechansims. It’s called survival. Severing contact with your NPD mother is survival. Already you’ve started to ask questions and seek information which is a huge step forward and hopefully validates your experiences and relieves your guilt.
I sincerely believe you can work on your relationship with your children, even if it’s just flagging the NPD, educating them about it, and possibly discussing their behaviours that give you the most concern.
My heart goes out to you as NPD is an insidious and cruel personality disorder to deal with – especially in multiples. You need people to help you who understand this. A lot of helping professionals do not. Find one who does.
I can fully understand your despair at times. Please keep in touch and let me know how you’re doing.
I am so very happy to have found your blog. I’m exhausted from living with a narcissist for the last 20 plus years. I have lost myself in the process and this situation is progressively getting worse. I didn’t even know what this was until a few years ago when a close friend of mine explained it to me. I can’t go on like this, it has worn me down big time.
Hey Deb,
After 20 years I’m not surprised you’re exhausted! And I’m not surprised you’ve ‘lost’ yourself. What I am surprised is how rampant this condition is and how little is known about it in our communities. When I first learned about NPD it was like an epiphany. Suddenly so many confusing and hurful things made sense. But even though I have been reading and learning about narcissism for a few years now, I’m still finding out things I didn’t know.
As I continue to learn, I’ll continue to share. I hope you find a place of peace and a place to re-charge. Please keep in touch.
Hugs to you.
Hello Jenny, Great work you are doing here and so well articulated about NPD abuse and its impact on victims, however, can I just say that many of us have never ever been co-dependents or took any part in what constitutes the covert cunning abuse that we don’t even know is happening to us.
We have been fooled, totally…especially if they are superb actors and pathalogically intelligent and in defence of all victims, I think I can safely say we should do everything we can to keep it clear that we were targeted, used, conned and fooled by a wolf in sheeps clothing…most of us who have had families with NPD/ASPDs would always if empaths, want their families to work, to believe in what is being portrayed (acted) towards us…..in my position, I knew my NH had a smoking and drinking problem, did not ever suspect a drug problem nor did I suspect that he was a psychopath….thats how good he was….I know I am no dummy, but I certainly am no co-dependent either and would never want myself portrayed as on….I was just wanting to be a loving supportive wife and Mother who could work part time to keep up and contribute with the bills, all the whilst, he NH, was plotting against me (UNBEKNOWN) …this is normal desires for any woman wanting the best for her family. It is not what I would class as co-dependent or worthy of self blame. Victims do indeed need validation, sadly it is under-recognised and under-validated….often many symptoms that make those abused revictimised all over again.
Hi Kim,
Lovely to hear from you and thanks for your comments. It is obvious that NPD is a complex and convoluted disorder that presents in very different ways bringing very different consequences. This makes it such a challenge for individuals, families, workplaces and communities. Yet despite its toxicity, it often is invisible. The best we can do is share – share our stories, our experiences and our knowledge in the hope it will help those who struggle.
Thank you for sharing!
My ex girlfriend has convinced me I am a covert narcissist. She said the first few months she was going insane as to how I could have no empathy. Meanwhile, I did have doubts about her intentions (money- which is my own insecurity w women based on past)and there was something inexplicable I did not trust initially (we’ve dated off and on for 4 years, her always leaving, me always spiraling into depression, her always asking me back, me always jumping at the occasion right away), but I’ve always loved her and treated her the best I knew how. Which was in my mind was really giving and genuine and caring. I am also so far from the perfect boyfriend. I can think of specific examples my distrust in her has led me to not be there. Love cannot truly be real without trust and I take responsibility for bringing that negativity to the relationship. But she convinced herself that I had absolutely no empathy whatsoever. None. She was going ‘insane with codependency’ to the extent she needed for her own mental health to seek counsel online and w friends. She is a psychology major and she is incredibly intelligent. By this time, despite all the heartache I impose after she leaves and how much I thought she was the one- her erratic behavior and my inability to do anything right made me check out of the relationship. I made this clear to her, but we still decided to prolong the relationship. At which time she made a complete 180. She was showering me w affection, being super nice- it was the most unusual thing but instead of embracing it I was still suspicious. Which is insane on my part! It’s what I always wanted and I didn’t trust it. Then I kissed another girl. I was unfaithful. She found out. She told me that she has been doing research for her own sanity and discovered 100% without a doubt that I indeed have covert narcissism. I have been diagnosed with avoidance and dependence in a clinical setting, but never anything like that (which didn’t surprise her because we would never allow a therapist to see our true self, or lack there of- we are that protective of our sick selves). It is malignant and she said I am incapable of marriage. Ever with anyone. I started researching the affliction myself online and I soon thereafter had the worst psychological snap in my life. I spiraled. I have convinced myself it is true. I know if it were not true, I would not have reacted so strongly to the diagnosis. Needless to say, shortly after her diagnosis, the relationship got sour real quick and ended. All because I carried out everything the diagnosis entails. Even now, stumbling across ‘victims of narcissism’ I feel I am playing the victim, because I’m the narcissist and that’s what the narcissist does.
I refuse to believe I am this monster, but if she’s right and I am, I don’t want to repress it and not seek help. Because I need love and I need to know I am capable of supplying it too. I am not trying to manipulate this post for some sort of validation (something she said I do wiyh others to evoke pity). this is only my perspective. I had many doubts as to her involvement w other men in our relationship, but as far as I know she never cheated. I kissed another woman. I cheated. Also she is in AA. I used to be but no longer am and can think of multiple times my drinking has been an issue.
I wish there was a way to determine whether I am infact the narcissist or if I have been the victim of one all along by her projections. i am very susceptible and she’s convinced me of things that weren’t true in the past. This has been the most psychologically stimulating year of my life. I’m left so confused.
Hi Steven,
I am so sorry to read of your distress and struggles, and hope 2013 brings you more enlightenment and peace than this year has.
Firstly, you should know I am not a psychologist or counsellor so my blog is not from a professional’s perspective. Having said that, I have been learning about Narcissism and NPD for about 7 – 8 years now so have gained a reasonable amount of knowledge which I will continue to share with the community, but I would still highly recommend you finding a health care worker experienced with narcissism and all its insidiousness. From my experience, they are rare.
Secondly, it’s obvious that you are feeling traumatised by your relationship and I think it’s fantastic you are seeking help. Here’s my layperson’s thoughts on reading your comments…
Read and learn as much about NPD as you can so that you can identify the narcissists many and varied tactics and see if they ring any bells for you. You’ve mentioned projection but there are a myriad of others. Things such as lying, gas lighting, blaming, hypersensitivity to perceived criticism, does not respect boundaries, controlling, interpersonally exploitive etc etc etc.
No not worry about labels. Focus on behaviours and feelings, rather than a label. From my understanding people with NPD never identify themselves as such due to poor insight and an inability to empathise. The fact that you are tying yourself in knots and worrying about being a narcissist would make me suspect that you are not!
Seek other sharing communities of people who are dealing with a narcissist or NPD in their lives. The advice, support, sharing is invaluable. Especially, the validation of ‘self’ and the fact that, ‘No, you are not crazy!’
I am currently in a marriage to a NDP. Word for word your blog is him.. We have a 5 yr old together who has Aspergers., I am currently planning to leave this marriage but need to carefully as he is from a different country to me…our son is scared of him:(
Every time I say we should sell house and separate he says good but then does a 360 and wants to keep trying. He puts me down all the time and blames me for everything. Unused to be this confident person with a great career., I have left 1 jobs because I could not cope..I am on edge all the time ..can anyone give me help As how to move out of this?
Hi Bec,
I’m not surprised that you can relate to this blog and hope this validates how you’re feeling. You’ve certainly got a lot to deal with in terms of your marriage and your son. But most of all, you’ve got to protect and be true to yourself. No more leaching of confidence!
I feel you need a support person/group behind you in order to decide how to proceed and to then follow through with your decisions. This isn’t something you can do in isolation. The more people who are aware of your issues/needs and who are willing to provide a supportive (not judgemental) role the better.
Try and find others experienced with NPD and learn from their experiences. This includes both professionals as well as everyday people struggling with the toxicity of a narcissist in their lives.
I wish you well in your endeavours and hope 2013 brings you to a place where you feel safe!
Thank you for this excellent article. I’ve been in a living nightmare world of a Jekyll/Hyde narcissist for the past 5 years. I have tried various times to break free, but of course I’ve been “hovered” back in and told that everything I think or believe is wrong, defective, hypersensitive and I must be crazy. I’ve been lied to cheated on, ignored, and verbally abused. I’ve also experienced some physical aggression and of course, took him back, and he made me think it must be my fault. He cannot accept responsibility and is now compulsive with his hobbies to ignore issues or the relationships. It’s a losing battle, and I have finally got the point he will NEVER change BC he is a man Eithout fault….in his mind, of course. He blames me for absolutely everything and I can never do anything right. Please continue your good work on this blog, as reading it has strengthened my resolve and I now know I’m not alone.
Hi Katie.
Hugs to you. When everyone shares their story it’s amazing how similar they all are. There is a whole community of survivors for you to tap into ‘out there’. And many who’ve yet to have their lightbulb moment. I encourage you to share this with your family and friends.
Wishing you peace in 2013!
I suspect my boyfriend is a narcissist or has NPD- not sure how different they are. He is highly intelligent and has admitted to being partly narcissistic. He was an A.D.H.D child (undiagnosed) or similar and had an abusive father. He also has had trouble sleeping since his teens which has prgressed to insomnia. I suspected he was ‘different’ quite early on (which seemed to fit in which his notions of superiority which I admired) here’s why
-i noticed he drank too much,
-he didn’t care much about what I had to say, initially asking me questions about myself to feign interest but during all other conversations he would skip over what I say and continue on with his points. This is ongoing, it is ALL about him
-The ‘i’m right, i’m the man’, approach, alpha male aspect. He says he is older more worldly, he knows things I don’t realise yet, an attitude he uses to devalue any relationship issue I bring up.
-Not validating any of my feelings, disagreeing with my view on my own feelings, not empathising at all causing hours of discussion/arguing.
-Complete inability to empathise with me and not wanting to. Never his fault
-Draining me of energy, I’m normally a night owl but feel so tired at the end of the day that I’ve been turning in hours earlier since being with him.
-Also I have sensed for a while there isn’t real love coming from him, or that he thinks of me much, he is too absorbed in his own life and own mind, his anxiety and his lack of sleep.
-I wondered whether he was able to love at all, if he is a Narcissist that would then make sense.
-I have spent the last 3 months perpetually puzzled (after a great first three – he was never over the top as I have read narcissitic can be initially, it was just a normal beginning). My friends say I am distant and constantly in thought.
-My thoughts are always on him and trying to work out what is going on.
-Why the need to always hang out with his group of friend (PNS?) and always prioritising them and their functions over time with me?
-Being unsure as to if and when he would want to spend time with me. Getting a last minute phone call to see if I was free, then when I ask for more notice in future he responds by saying he is not a planner (even though he was initially)
-Not wanting me around as much anymore, not giving me any emotion.
-States he has withdrawn from partners sexually and ‘gone into his shell’ when they ‘push him too far’ (this hasnt happened with me yet)
-He’s very maudlin and can get into these melancholy moods thinking about his home country.
-He always needs to have music on or some type of background noise.
-There has been some gaslighting, where I’ve noticed my things at his house have bene hidden or once when I noticed (or did I?) my hair shampoo had been replaced with a new one as the protective seal was left on it. These are all met with vehement denial and he vehemently denies ever cheating or intending to cheat.
-Preoccupation with ex girlfriends, he looks up his ex girlfriends via social media (surely its too early in the relationship for him to be doing that) which makes me think he still pines (can they pine?) for them even though they are the ones he brings up as examples of ‘bad ‘ girlfriends’ due to their outbursts (of frustration in my view) he highlights to me how all of his exes would get back with him with just ne phonecall (why is this important for him to say?)
-I have also found his looking up online dating sites (he doesnt appear to contact them, only look) When i went to walk out on him over this he cried (crocodile tears?) and swore on his fathers grave it was a habit and it meant nothing to him.
-Paranoid, some OCD aspects
-Resentful towards his mother and past occurrences but still looks after her financially and gives her time
-Extremely vengeful, vengeful to the death attitude
-Criticised me often making me feel insecure then says they are not faults to me there is perfection in imperfection (then why say it)
-Very rarely compliments me except for a month when I was overseas. Distance seems to inspire something in him as he has had a few long distance girlfriends too. I seem to get the most out of him when I am unavailable
-Lacks motivation, has big goals but doesnt achieve them and makes excuses for it.
-Does brain puzzles every day and spends a heap of time on the phone to people, (I guess to calm his mind down which he says is always thinking a million things)
He says he has my best interests at heart and likes to spoil me at expensive restaurants (not with gifts, no birthday or christmas present as he doesn believe in them) I have to beg and plead him to attend functions in my own life, but then he gets resentful when I don’t invite him to some. I desperately want him the be ‘the one’ (a notion he doesn’t believe in) but he has already made me lose ‘my spark’ so to speak I can’t see this man making me happy (what is happiness? he would ask me). Do you think he has NPD? He doesnt exhibit the ‘taking advantage to others’ trait, in fact would do anything to anyone and is perhaps even overly generous. He also isnt obviously jealous, I’ve noticed it a little but not an issue. Also he doesn’t want to control me as I have read some narcs do. Also the declaration of love and over the top relationship behaviour that marcs exhibit never happened.. SO confused
Hi Bree,
Wow, you sure have a relationship with a complex individual and hats off to you for trying to make sense of it all. I’m amazed at how in-depth your insights are. You must be incredibly observant and intuitive.
In the large picture I don’t think it matters whether or not your boyfriend fits the mould of NPD or whether he just falls a long way along the continuum of narcissism, I guess the bottom line is ‘you’. Where do you fit in the picture? Does it come at a cost (happiness, spark)? Is it a cost you’re prepared to pay long-term? Only you can answer.
I feel you could use some contemplative time – time to step back and try and grasp some objectivity – before you decide the right path for you. I wish you peace and happiness.
Jeni
Hi,
I left the NPD man – Peter- I was married to 22 years ago. After he met his current wife (who has Borderline Personality Disorder) he forbade ANY contact between his family (in including his brother and sisters, and me … my two little girls were not allowed to even mention me when they were at his house! Yesterday was our daughter’s wedding day. At the reception, Peter’s brother and I had a conversation ( we had been friends and room mates at university). Later, as I was dancing, Peter came right up to me and told me: ‘Leave my f…ing family alone, you psychopathic bitch!’ I turned away and kept dancing as if nothing had happened. I learned later that his mad wife had stormed out and go e home as she was so in ended that his brother had spoken to me! Towards the end of the evening, I went to the bar to get a drink. Fortunately, my husband Dan saw Peter running -yes, running – after me, and came to my rescue as Peter was once again in my face and hurling abuse. He and my older daughter and her husband managed to get him to go back to his table. Ironically, this man is a Clinical Psychologist! But what has saddened me deeply is that my daughters were both hurt and upset, and also are angry with me for talking to his brother and ‘provoking’ the incident. Thank God I left him all those years ago. I experienced many of the victim symptoms you describe. Now I realise that he is a sick and twisted person who will nurse his hatred for me ( for leaving and humiliating him) until the day he dies.
I appreciate the opportunity to write about all this, as it is swirling around my mind, making me unhappy
Cally
Hi Cally,
What a horrible turn of events for you at your daughter’s wedding! I can understand how hurt and upset you feel and am sorry your daughter’s are projecting their anger at you. Hopefully in time they will appreciate it is unfounded. In the meantime, it sounds like your husband is a wonderful support person for you and someone to appreciate in your life.
I can see that your daughters are in a tricky situation, no-one wins with these personalities and social dynamics. You can understand the recommendation for ‘No Contact’ when you leave someone with NPD. I hope you and your girls find a way to negotiate the most peaceful path for all.
Jeni
Hi Cally,
What a horrible turn of events for you at your daughter’s wedding! I can understand how hurt and upset you feel and am sorry your daughters are projecting their anger at you. Hopefully in time they will appreciate it is unfounded. In the meantime, it sounds like your husband is a wonderful support person for you and someone to appreciate in your life.
I can see that your daughters are in a tricky situation, no-one wins with these personalities and social dynamics. You can understand the recommendation for ‘No Contact’ when you leave someone with NPD. I hope you and your girls find a way to negotiate the most peaceful path for all.
Jeni
Hi
I’ve been separated form my ex for 18 days. I believe he was also a narc from what I have researched so far. In the beginning he swept me off my feet, buying me beautiful flowers, cooking me 3 course meals (and that was only 3 dates in!). He then started to play the mind games, if I did something he didn’t like, i.e. crying, saying my feelings were hurt by his actions or for leaving me on top of a hill in the middle of nowhere (I wasn’t supposed to be upset or angry about that!) then he would not call or text me for days. I’d be going out of my mind, wondering why, what had I done that was so awful. We broke up three times and each time I kept contact (I felt I couldn’t be without him) and last went back for a fourth time in July last year. I was different this time though, I realise I have my own insecurities and issues from bullying at school and previous bad relationships, but I was having therapy and getting to accept that actually I’m ok! I stood up to him, reacted differently, didn’t get upset when he ignored my texts, I just carried on with my life as normal. Until, I wasn’t feeling well Xmas Eve and as I wasn’t giving him all my attention and was huddled in my dressing gown in bed (after he withdrew his arm from around me) as I felt cold; Xmas Day he said he wasn’t sure if he wanted to be on his own, so I told him I know how this plays out, I go home, you don’t speak to me for days, I get upset but you make out I’m playing the victim, etc or lets just enjoy the day and make me a coffee; I thought I’d sussed out how to handle him, but I think he realised I was on to his games and he couldn’t deceive me anymore! I had a rant about a text from my brother Boxing night and had to go back out collect some stuff from my bro. He text me not to come back and see him Friday, but then he said he wasn’t well and I didn’t see him at all. Instead I got a dumping note in a carrier bag by my car the Saturday before New Year. He controlled the whole relationship and then blamed me for everything, nothing was his fault. We had to watch what he wanted , go where he wanted , eat what he wanted, everything on his terms. My feelings and how I felt never mattered, never validated, it was just me being sensitive. I now realise I was duped by a narc! If I had known the signs at the beginning and listened to my instincts….but I won’t let him beat me down. I’m going to continue getting to know myself and although right now it hurts like hell, I know I will be happier without him in my life.
Thanks for the rant
Krissy x
Hi Jeni,
Thanks for this insightful article. My wife and I recently had a couple staying in our house who exhibited profoundly the NPD/victim scenario and it was very disturbing to witness and participate in.
My question to you is can you suggest how to broach this subject with the victim without alienating them and causing them to push back/away? I want to help but I don’t want to make a big mistake and lose that person by upsetting them instead of helping.
Many thanks
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
From my experience, unless a victim is seeking answers/solutions to their situation, they will not be receptive to anything you say/do.
You could, however, flag with them that you noticed something was amiss and ask if they want to talk about it.
Due to many reasons (including co-dependency for some) it’s extremely hard for a victim to take the steps to initiate change.
Good luck and don’t give up on them!
Warm regards,
Jeni
To Krissy,
Hey Krissy!
You Go, Girl!!!
And keep going till he’s permanently out of your life.
Congratulations and hugs for you courage.
Jeni
I have been a victim still am and children i need to join this group asap .
WoW!! I had to leave! I had to take my daughter out of that narcissistic living situation. I knew something was not right for so long. My voice was not tended to and chose not to be the “tool” for his end goal. I had to play the game so as not to make him aware of my plan to secretly escape. I plan to get a restraining order. He neglected our daughter’s education and I knew I had to leave. It’s better late than never. I look forward to rebuilding my soul’s core. He kept me financially poor. He controlled the environment and people I would see. The few friends I would make he would have pessimistic behaviors and I would not see them again. He’s says he accepts me not going back to him but I feel I need to watch my back. I’m thankful for fate and how a friend was a sounding board to my feelings.
Hi Lorraine,
Great to hear from you and hugs to you and your children. Pls feel free to speak out as you wish. The more stories we share, the less alone we feel.
Jeni x
Hi Orpha,
Yes, it’s time for new beginnings for you and your daughter. I wish you the strength to take the necessary steps to freedom. And I would definitely watch your back!
Jeni x
Thankyou for this page. I’m still not sure if I am a victim or maybe I just think its all about me. I feel so alone and anxious all the time. I have physically removed myself from TNT mother but emotionally I feel guilty and that I have abandoned her. My extended family and sisters don’t understand my choices and if another person tells me I’m a crazy, lying bad person I may believe them.
Hi Pip!,
Am reaching out in cyberspace to give you a ginormous hug!
It sounds like you feeling fragile right now, but the reality is that you show incredible courage and strength. It’s so hard to extricate yourself from a family member when the rest of the family do not understand.
In my readings on Narcissistic Personality Disorder I have read a lot of articles, books etc on Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and have learned that whilst some become a Narcissist themselves, others escape but to varying degrees. They often refer to ‘The Golden Child’. Ironically, if you are seeking answers and trying to take steps to get some sanity in your life, this means you are NOT the golden child.
I’d really recommend you Googling Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and seeing what resources you find. If any readers can add to this it would be great for Pip and others in a similar position.
Now, Pip, repeat after me:
I am not Crazy
I am not Bad
I am not Lying
WE BELIEVE YOU!
Jeni x
I was brought up by not one but two narc parents. I only realised this a few years ago. My father controlled everything we did down to our toilet habits. My mother would make us even as teens ask before we were allowed to get ourselves a cup of tea or even a slice of toast. I was screamed beaten and yelled at if i complained i was hungry. At dinner we were served burnt food or gross food like liver and lambs brains and were beaten until we ate it all. For lunches at school my mother would mix cheese jam and other spreads all together in one sandwich and tell the teachers to keep an eye on me. I was beaten for not eating all my lunch though it was completely gross and the banana and apple i was given was rotten. As we got older it got worse my dad left my mother and my mother picked up her abuse even worse. She made out that we were awful human beings and made us get on our hands and knees and cry out thank you mummy for keeping us and not giving us up for adoption thank you for keeping us. She used to tell us how we are lucky to have her as she felt like giving us all up for adoption and told us that we would go into foster homes and end up in the streets if it wasnt for her. When i got old enough to speak out i was 17 when i had enough and got wise to it all. I was kicked out on the streets and told that i was nothing and i would amount to nothing. She would pick up ny freinds and offer them lifts and leave me out in the cold to walk home from school alone. My freinds and everyone thought she was amazing and when i complained to my freinds they stuck up for her. My mum told me she hoped i was going to sleep on the streets. When i got help from people from my after school job she stormed into the work place and abused my managers and they grabbed me and hid me in the back of the store. She bannedmy siblings from seening me and spun them stories of how i am an evil ungrateful person. She used God as an excuse. She is a preacher still to this day and a councellor too. She uses people for whatever she can get form them. When you are of no use she destroys your entire reptuation. I now live on the other side of the world from her and that is not far enough. If i lived on the moon that would not be far enough. I have a son and i am a really good mum and i know this because i feed my son, clothe him listen to him and play with him and i do not expect anything in return. My mum loves to lend money then bash you over the head with it for years to come. She spends all her money then says well i helped you out this year with this or that except what she lent was such a low amount compared to all the money she had but some how she has to impart some of the blame to me. I love my son and i have never hit him that is how i know i am a good mum. I can feel i have feelings and i am not fake. My mum used to scream the house down then the phone would ring and in a nano second her entire demeanour would change and she would be calm and happy and a different person then off the phone the witch would come out until the next phone call. I am in my thirties now and feel i have awoken from a bad dream i realised a few years ago that all my relationships were abusive ones. The guys all had the exact same traights and reminded me of my parents. They would control me with emotions withholding affection withholding information and controlling me by putting me down by blaming me for everything. You see as a child and the eldest of 4 i was blamed for my siblings bad behaviour because i was the eldest i should have stopped them so i would cop a beating for their actions too. So i naturally took the blame in all my relationships with everyone i encountered, somehow i felt responsible and i had to help them. I attracted so many narcs including a female freind who loved to invite me shopping insist on paying for it all only to bash me over the head with it later and force me to keep her infidelity a secret form her hubby and try and force me to come over and act like it was all ok in front of him. My sister and my brother are narcs too one of my siblings is not. My sister and i had an argument last year i was getting dressed and she came at me and yeleld at me for taking too long in the mirror no one else was waiting for it she concoted this story how i was holding everyone up but no one was awake and ready to leave i was the only one ready she was in her pj’s but someho felt justified. At dinner her and my brother in the middle of having a nice dinner suddenly stopped talking started at me and called me evil. I had sunburn because my sister forced us all to stay on the beach for the entire day because it was her bday and she wanted us to. Then was called evil and ugly for being sunburnt. I argued with her and swore at her i spologised for swearing i never called her names she went into great detail how i should die and how i dont deserve to be a parent or to live etc. She grabbed my son and said your mummy is evil never listen to her. I snapped it i went off at her and grabbed my stuff got in the car and left her there without a ride home. She got a ride with my brother though and they came to my house to scream at me. I did not talk to her for 18 months she wrote to me all remoresful and sweet when she gained my trust again she wrote me a nasty email saying how evil i am bringing up the argument we had and said of you want me in your life you must take all the blame for the agrument and admit that you started it was to blame then ill allow you in my life my brother wrote in that same email as he lives with her now that i was not aloowed in the family until i took all the blame. My mother is now getting married to a man she has dated for 7 weeks this is her third marriage. When I told her that she is not doing the right thing and please wait to see if the relationship lasts a year first she belittled me told me my opinion is worth nothing to her and she was willing to forget what i had said and asked me to take everything at face value. I do not want her in my life but i feel so guilty because my son loves her. I am getting help for this right now. I want to be free of them all if i had lots of money i would literally move tell none of them change all my numbers and emails and just dissapear from their sight forever. Since I cant do that i hope my new counsellor can give me some solid advice how to get these people out of my life for good but in a mature non aggressive way. These people just want to blame me my sister would talk to me for hours about her problems as my advice then a few weeks later come yelling at me saying i took your advice and it went wrong its all your fault she is in her late 20′s my mother is 56 its time for them to be narcs together and leave me and my boy out of it. I love them very much but i hate who they are. I feel loss and grief because i know who they could be and how much out family could be together normally if only they wernt like this. I wonder why i was born into such a family they all ignore their own issues and project it all onto other people and make out like you are the insane one. My mother made out i was totally nuts over dramatic for asking her to take a step back and wait a year before marrying some young dude not old enuf to me my father after a few weeks they planned to marry after 2 weeks! That is NOT normal behaviour at all! None of them will listen and i am done with them all.
I read your story and my heart breaks for you. ‘Survivor’ pretty much sums it up. You have been living in a war zone all your life.
I’m so glad you’ve moved away with your son. Now, is your time. Time to heal. Time to play. Time to find peace.
Now that you finally can make sense of your crazy-making life, I hope you can stand back and realise that you are the one who has amazingly managed to stay sane. Your little boy is so lucky to have you. And you are so lucky to have him, too.
You need to talk with people who understand. There’s an amazing number of people who will have also lived your sort of life. I hope you can find them and draw comfort from sharing experiences and knowledge. I hope your non-narc sibling is a source of comfort, too.
Am sending you my thoughts and wishes for the beginning of a new and marvellous life!
Jeni x
Hi Jeni, i have read this great article and your comments with interest, i do note that most of you are women, i would like , if i could, bring some more balance to this, as there are many narcissistic women out there too,
i was with a covert malignant one , who along with all with this very hidden condition [some can go decades without seeing past the good-as-gold humble martyr exterior],are unlike the overts as they are prone to worry and stress, so seem vulnerable, but are sadistic abusive predators, behind their ‘social’ modest image,
They are highly skilled in manipulation and abuse and will use NLP, and suggestion in order to control and abuse , which they use after making you feel initially you are the most special person ever in order to hook you in,
Then they subtle mental abuse to slowly erode your confidence and make you feel all they are doing is your fault, they will say it is ‘all in your head’ ‘your paranoid’ they would ‘never do that’ etc whilst sadistically dismantling your identity and ability to think or feel in any rational and normal manner,
The coverts are the most dangerous as many fail to see through their false image, and this leaves those being abused by them, who have already been isolated behind their backs by the coverts to friends family and any support they had, in total isolation with no-one to listen and believe them,
As the covert will present a martyr/victim image as if the one they are abusing is ‘crazy’ ‘deluded’ and is the one causing them ‘intolerable suffering’, leaving their victim totally closed off from any support,
I have written some articles on my hubpage goldenprince13.hubpages where i have explored the narcissitic condition in more detail, and have other links to further research on the covert narcissist, as all need to learn and protect themselves from this dangerously hidden threat from such a predatory condition, knowledge is power for us all,
To all those who have experienced this or any abuse in their lives, keep safe,recover,deal with your inner issues and become strong,secure,and set healthy boundaries without ever allowing ANYONE to ever compromise them, but most of all be your true self as this ensures you will never be open to such abuse ever again,
As their condition is one of being self-centred to the extreme and hidden by their false sense of self, they fear strength and anyone that can see and expose them for what they truly are.
Thanks for reading i hope it helps.
Hi GoldenPrince13,
I’m so glad to hear from you and that you’ve shared your experiences with everyone in this global community.
I can fully appreciate the female narcissist and the toxicity of their behaviours. I’ve been researching this area for a long, long time trying to make sense of people, experiences, fall-outs in my life and the life of my family. A large part of my research went towards a book that was published last year, which tells of a relationship fragmentation from a young male’s point of view. As an author, I concluded that male victims are often abused twice – once by the NPD person, and again by others in society who either don’t believe them or who expect them to ‘build a bridge and get over it’. The results can be quite tragic.
So, what I’ve decided to do is share my knowledge, insights and experiences in the hope that it helps others trying to make sense of their lives. I’m delighted this blog has touched so many people and will continue to post in the future.
Am sending a cyber-hug and wishing you a more peaceful path for the future.
Jeni
Narcissism is the tendency to over-estimate one’s abilities and importance.
A narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by grandiosity, exaggerated self of one’s own importance, preoccupation with being admired, exploitation of others.
I have a cousin who has a healing business in Ponsonby Auckland she is a total narcissist. She has no real education but fancies herself as some master reiki healer and sucks all these people in with the plastic façade she puts across. We have watched her grow up so we know exactly what she is like. She has been violent to her children and also a child she looked after. After family members accused her of this she manipulated her way out of it making herself out to be the victim and further manipulating her daughters to lie to the authorities and they have started to be just like her.
I think she actually believes all the lies she tells to people. she tries to sell her business by posing in all these pictures that were taken years ago, she is the Tantra queen …all the lies and deception I believe has had an impact unconsciously on her as she believes she is very beautiful, wearing layers of makeup and faulse eyelashes far from a natural look of a holistic therapist however her karma is that she is extremely obese and tries to fit herself into all these clothes that don’t fit her, because being a narcissist she doesn’t see reality and views herself something quite different.
The terrible thing is that vulnerable people that she takes money off, are unaware that her energy and spirituality is truly evil and she transfers this onto others and they don’t have a clue.
and the cruelty goes on and one. twenty years of being tortured and even now with a divorce and his new wife there, he continues to bully, threaten and is doing the same thing to my children, whom still love and want to spend time with him. I still have strong feelings of wanting to end my life because even with a new loving healthy partner, the old one just continues to abuse and terrify me. An email from him can bring back instant feelings of terror.
Thank you! After 7 years I am leaving my covert narcissist husband this week and the stress of it is horrible. Just counting the days. Sites like this remind me I’m doing the right thing. Fortunately I’m already in counseling to deal with my issue of always choosing my narcissistic father as a mate.I now know I have to deal with codependency issue too.
I found a book that helped me out a LOT after years of mind-numbing hell with my narcissist partner. After 6 years I’m still with him but finally FREE (yay!!) of him being in control of my feelings. I’m pulling all the strings now and loving it
Its http://www.controlthenarcissist.com. A bit expensive but worth every penny. Amazing to finally be free
Survivor – you really ARE a survivor. God bless you and I hope many beautiful things come your way. You truly did not deserve the life you’ve had. All you did was get born into the wrong family
It makes me realise that although I’m controlling my narcissist boyfriend now, I wouldn’t want him to be the father of my children because I dont want THEM to have to control him. At least now though I am emotionally in a place where I feel I CAN leave him – and if that’s where that book has taken me then its still worth the money. Good luck Survivor xo
Thank you everyone for your comments and courage to speak out, for your support of others, for your advice and insights. We all gain so much this way.
And thanks Angela for your tip about the book. Am off to buy it asap!
To everyone who’s ever cried and died (inside), here’s to being FREE!
Whoahhh!
That book IS expensive!!!
Hi I have just read all the articles on yr site and I thank you and all those who have shared their experiences.i have had an experience that has had left me taking antidepressants and undergoing counselling. My counsellor told me to google npd. I’m still not sure if I am a victim. I am martied with children but 5 years ago I was going through a tough time. I became very good friends with a lady at the gym. She made me feel on top of the world and like I could achieve anything. I didn’t know at first that she was gay but felt very attracted to her. Anyway turns out she was gay and her preference was straight women. We became involved and I was totally in awe if her. But she played with my emotions. Full on one minute then totally distant. I was confused. Not only had I embarked on an affair (which I never thought i wd) but it was also a same sex affair. She always told me I was oversensitve, read too much into her actions and I wd always end up apologising thinking I was just finding it hard to cope with my sexuality issues. She constantly talked about all the straight women who were attracted to her and made me feel I was special to be the one she had chosen. Anyway she finally move on with no explanation and I am left confused and extremely hurt. One of the hardest things was having nobody to talk to. I cut out friends as I didn’t think they wd understand I was having a same sex affair. She knew that and encouraged me to talk about my feelings to her. Vicious circle I opened up and she then knew which buttons to press. She’s still I’m my mind every day and I’m hoping this group can give me guidance on how to move on. I’m dealing with do many things. 1st infidelity, 2nd my sexuality and 3rd whether I am a victim of abuse. Please help
Relief. What relief I experienced after reading this. I left my spouse a year ago after living in complete and utter insanity. It took all the courage I had. I felt so much doubt afterwards. “Did I over-react? Did I do something wrong?”I was exhausted from walking on eggshells..wondering what would happen next.
I have been diagnosed with PTSD, being treated for anxiety and depression, trying to enjoy eating food (went from size 6 to 0-2).
Of course he is posting pics of his ‘new’ girl/victim on Facebook. I pity her.
In the meantime I am not truly able to date. I had a rebound with another narcissist and ran for the hills after 3 months. I now have an arrangement (friend with benefits) because it ‘seems’ like the safest thing to do.
I wonder how long it will take to recover from the nightmare?
hi i was with my ex for 5 yrs ,before i broke down n couldnt take it no more , we have been apart over 3 years , n i feel totally damaged . I dont think ill ever get over the mind fk i coped from him . And am pretty much happier to stay single than to even go threw that again . I must say nothing is worse than doubting your own feelings and judgement , because someone tells u that , it didnt happen , that u made it up or that they didnt say what they said , even the littlest decisions i needed him to help me with .Im still love adicted to this guy but have managed to stay away , i wouldnt say that im happy or even living , i think im surviving day by day , but anything is better than living like that. Just staying one more day does do alot of damage , u dont want to be scarred up n unloveable so if your with someone like that , its not u , go to counselling , rehab , whatever u need to do to get out ..that shit scars u 4 life
Hi Bubalubski,
It sounds like you’ve been through hell, but haven’t managed to get fully back yet. I really hope you start to heal and find a place where you trust yourself to look forward.
Lots of hugs to you.
Jeni
Hi Jeni, Just wanted to say that you are doing a great job of informing people about NPD. I have been reading the comments, and I find it heartwarming to hear that so many of the people here have discovered that they have been experiencing narcissistic abuse.
I am a therapist who works with victims of narcissistic relationship, not all abuse is the result of romantic relationships, such as abuse by a spouse or partner (both male and female). Perpetrators of this form of abuse can also be parents, grand-parents, children, siblings, co-workers, bosses, teachers, doctors, priests, and even therapists…….. narcissists are everywhere, always scouting for narcissistic supply.
My experience is that most victims who enter the therapy room have no idea that they are victims of narcissistic abuse. They first present with more identifiable issues, such as depression, panic attacks, fear, and trauma. As their story unfolds they display many of the symptoms of Narcissistic Victim Syndrome (i.e. confussion, trauma bonding, psychosomatic illness, low self-esteem, etc.). The victim knows that something is wrong, and often they think it is something that is wrong with them, and the confusion they experience leaves them feeling that they are going mad. Of course, they hear that they are mad often enough from their gaslighting narcissist. For those who have never heard the term “gaslighting”, I suggest that you familarize yourself with the term. Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse used by narcissists in order to instill in their victim’s an extreme sense of anxiety and confusion to the point where they no longer trust their own memory, perception or judgment.
I shall put a link to an article I wrote on the subject, but please do ready other explanations of the term by Googling it:
http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome
The Aftermath,
How could you?
You asked me for help and i made you my friend
You wanted my love and trust and I gave you my all
You happily took everything I gave and a lot more
Then you abandoned me when I needed you
and crushed me in the aftermath.
All the promises and dreams you dreamt out loud
became denials and jokes
All the affection and compliments became criticism and insults
I know you don’t care,
I wonder if you ever did
I’ve been replaced and long since forgotten
I don’t want you back
I know what’s inside of you is dark and evil.
The scars you left are the worst kind
Because they will never heal
You killed my spirit
and one day it will haunt you.
Hi Toni,
Thanks for creating such a poignant, yet powerful, poem.
I’ve enjoyed reading it and will enjoy sharing it with others.
My only concern is with ‘one day it will haunt you.’ This would require empathy and those with NPD are unable to feel this
Best just to move on with no looking back.
Much happiness to you,
Jeni x
To Christine Louis de Canonville,
Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion and for sharing your wonderful article about Gaslighting. I can highly recommend following Christine’s link http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome
The saddest part of all of this is that victims who feel like they are going crazy are treated with anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication, but none of their medical practitioners look at these people holistically, in light of the people in their circles of influence.
Christine, another thing that puzzles me is this:
Why do so few health professionals know about this personality disorder, or how to manage a victim of this personality disorder?
Please keep in touch.
Warm wishes,
Jeni
You ask “Why do so few health professionals know about this personality disorder, or how to manage a victim of this personality disorder?”
Jen, I can only speak for therapists in Ireland. I have done a lot of training in the area of different types of therapy over the last 20+ years, not just in Ireland, but in different countries. Never once was NPD even mentioned on any therapy training course I attended, nor was Narcissistic Victim Abuse (NVS). When doing my B.A. Degree in the 1990′s I studied Abnormal Psychology. However, it did not mention the “ism”, just looking at the brain functioning…… this never helped me as a psychotherapist.
In Ireland, narcissistic behaviour, because it is a personality disorder, is the domain of psychiatry (mental health services), not psychotherapy.
It seems that nobody (or very few) has actually linked the narcissist and the victim together, which really is quite bizarre. A lot of information is known
about the damaging behaviour of the narcissist, but little or nothing known about how this affect the victim…….. that is what I am trying to address NOW.
Victims of narcissistic abuse are more likely to go into personal therapy than to a psychiatrist when their world starts falling apart. Of course they do not come in and say “I am the victim of narcissistic abuse”, they come in because they are not coping with their lives, and they have no idea what is happening to them. That is why I started my website (The Roadshow for Therapists” (www.narcissistic behavor.net). If a therapist understand narcissistic abuse, they will also be able to recognize when they are dealing with a narcissistically abused victim. As the person’s story unfolds, the informed therapist will recognize the symptoms of Narcissistic Victim Syndrome (i.e. the Trauma Bonding/Stockholm Syndrome; the cognitive dissonance; CPTSD; Infantile regression; the unconscious defense mechanism; dissociation; co-dependent behaviour; etc.)……… these (and other recognizable symptoms) are the “red flags”.
Although I started my site with the intention of sharing my information and research with other therapists, I was amazed to find that victims were contacting me from all around the world (over 150 countries to-date). It became clear to me that this form of abuse is Universal, and reaching epidemic proportions. In their book, The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement, Twenge and Campbell state that although men are still more narcissistic than women, women (and children) are catching up fast. I know that I see men who have been narcissistically abused by their female partners, but this abuse largely goes unreported because of the shame that the males feel. It also troubles me that doctors, health professionals, social workers, police, solicitors, family courts etc., are all ignorant regarding the insidious behaviour of narcissists, and they more often label the victim as the problem. This further abuses the victim.
Here is a link to a short article I wrote on Female Narcissists:-
http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/can-narcissism-affect-women
Jeni, I Hope this answers your question.
Christine Louis de Canonville
Hope this answers your question.
Hi Christine,
I’m so glad you came to this site! I read your article on the Female Narcissist and although I’ve never heard pf Female Relational Aggression I could totally relate. I intend to read all the articles at http://narcissisticbehaviour.net as soon as possible.
Interestingly, the female narcissist with NPD was the antagonist in a young adult multi platform book that I wrote and had published last year. It’s called Kiss Kill (Really Blue Books). The young male enters his ‘perfect love’ only to have it disintegrate over time. I presented Kiss Kill at a conference this year and am sharing the Powerpoint and YouTube for those who may be interested.
Kiss Kill Presentation
http://www.scoop.it/t/young-adult-and-children-s-stories/p/3995895138/transmedia-toe-dipping-2013
Kiss Kill YouTube ‘How Do You Define a Man?’ by Crane Films
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scrdqYyXMFO
Will definitely stay in touch! Thank you so much for your insights and knowledge. Hugely appreciated.
Jeni
Hi Jeni,
Thank you for your blog/info on covert NPD. My younger sister is a covert… over the years there hasn’t been any thoughtless awful thing that she’s refrained from doing to me. Kicking me when I’m down is her specialty, she even tries to pull in our brother (they are only 10 months apart and he has never married) to humiliate and hurt me. It’s always when I’m least expecting it and off guard, and we’re all having a good time together.. this is her specialty. Out to dinner in S.F., out to brunch in Ashland, OR, during her engagement party, even, (this is the worst) at our own father’s deathbed in a hospital in Seattle.
Fortunately I have another sister (we are all in our 50′s), one that this younger sister also victimized years ago.. and she gives me emotional support, as does my husband. Mother views her as self-centered but she’s also the Golden Child.. seems she can’t bring herself to believe that her “sweet” youngest daughter would do mean things to other family members on purpose.
I’m healing now… we had a terrible blow out when I discovered that she was an HFA high functioning alcoholic (she’s a professional woman in healthcare) back in 2010. Surprise! I’m a wicked evil person that she threw away — again. I’ve been thrown away by her at least four or five other times over the years.. She always makes me believe that she wants a big sister again (never apologizes, of course).
This time it’s different, she can progress in her alcoholism and her codependent husband (who constantly has attacks of nerves, hives, cold sores, etc) Probably due to her antics ignores us as well..
In fact, they bought a second home about a mile from where we live and they travel hundreds of miles to this home and pretend we don’t live here. Believe me, I’ve gone through hell with this bitch over the years.. but I’m through now. If her husband ever wakes up and snaps out of it, he’s going to need some serious counseling.
Yes, the post traumatic results have been difficult for me, I wondered why I put up with her nonsense, lies and aloof meanness over the years… all I can say is she was my sister and I wanted to believe that she valued me. Now I understand that she doesn’t and she never really did. I attribute this bond more to my reluctance to let her go earlier but I do acknowledge that she played me like a fool for years.. one cannot go back and change a thing.
thanks for allowing me to write this,
please keep helping others to recognize these coverts,
best regards, Nancy
Hi Nancy,
Sounds like you’ve been through the mill and back again with your younger sister. I really feel for you. This is such a convoluted shape-shifting thing to experience I’m hardly surprised you got played for a fool.
I’m glad you’ve got supportive people in your life and hope they can rally at times of need.
This is an insidious battle to fight.
Hugs,
Jeni
Jeni,
Thanks..
Yes the battle has been insidious.. but it’s Over now — I’ve no need to fight any longer.
She can keep our brother (who is apparently still under her control) and our Mother as well. She’s laid the groundwork for years and told them both what a out-of-control nutcase I am for years.
What people need to understand about these Coverts is that they can permanently ruin family relationships. This isn’t like a covert NPD who is an “ex-husband” or ex-boyfriend, etc. That would be easier to find closure. This is a family member you have done lots for over the years who has systematically and selfishly ‘poisoned the well’ within the family and ruined relationships.
Yes, it’s an insidious battle.. but there comes a time when you probably just have to ‘divide’ up the family and stay with those you know are healthy and objective… otherwise, the battle goes on Forever.
I could envy those with an ‘ex’ this and that who can walk away and begin a new life without a Covert NPD in their midst. More needs to be done to identify these people earlier on… I didn’t even realize there was a Name for what she is until 2010. Sad to live so many years in such a state of confusion.. There’s nothing to fight about — it’s flight time.
My mother had numerous electric shock ‘treatments’ for her thyroid ‘treatment’ in Nova Scotia when I was around 1 year old.
Could this wrong treatment by the medical establishment, have CAUSED her Narcissist Personality Disorder?
I am looking for the Best book covering dealing with COVERT NARCISSISM, have not found it yet, as they deal with regular N.
I noticed online, there is no mention, so far, of really only ONE person being their lifelong target. The quietest, gentlest, youngest family member in this case. Generalities seem to be discussed for anyone seeking a way out their harmful relationship problems with their NP parent.
My older brother was the favored, protected one unsurprisingly. As these nutty events keep occurring more than several times a year and are physically, mentally, etc. disturbing and draining what advice do you offer?
I want to be able to say I can (as easily as parents seem to do) detach emotionally from them, when they go on the attack. He scores about a 12, her a 26.
Thank you, blessings to all putting up with this.
Hi Anotherone!
Nothing I’ve read relates Narcissistic Personality Disorder to electric shock treatment. Everything I’ve read points to parenting issues that failed to encourage a sense of ‘self’ and fostered the development of narcissistic traits. It would be interesting to find out more.
As to the issue of covert versus overt narcissism, there’s a whole chapter about it in a book by Eleanor Payson called ‘The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love and Family. Basically, Eleanor Payson concludes that the dynamics of the disorder are identical for both overt and covert narcissists. What differs is their Public Persona.
The Overt Narcissist gains their sense of identity from the need for admiration, power and control and gains their attention through a larger than life display of charm, intimidation or grandiose shows of wealth, high status, money etc. They demand an endless supply of public admiration, respect, awe or even fear. The overt narcissist often has a busy social life and many friends, but these are a carefully selected group with similar traits or happy to play a supporting or adoring role.
The covert narcissist gains admiration, status and control through indirect means and they often disguise their grandiose needs through player a role such as helper, humanitarian, expert professional, rebel with a cause, misunderstood artist etc. They often are drawn to a role that portrays them as humanitarians such as doctors, therapists, ministers or missionaries. It is through their role that their needs for admiration, money and control are met, whilst at the same time maintaining an illusion of selflessness.
So, basically the overt and covert narcissists are identical in need, but opposite in public persona.
As to how you manage your N family members, withdrawal, detachment, no contact, set boundaries, seek support from others who understand and will validate this problem in your life.
Hugs.
Jeni
Thank you for your responses Jeni, appreciated.
Unfortunately, there has been no one in my life who are willing to be a support person for me, and I have gone it alone. I did mention it to her brother who is a counselor, pastor, etc. Said he wasn’t aware of NPD. Due to my mother’s behind my back sabotages, and years of mistrusting her speaking with her support group of family and friends on the phone specifically, and hearing her speak inappropriately about my father for i.e., knowing she does it to me too with my relatives, has made the ability to reach out, well just about impossible. Everyone thinks she is a do good, giving, angelic person, and she had me fooled myself for almost 40 yrs too! I finally went on line, typed in her abnormal response to me, and up came pages on narcissism, which fit with her inability, lifelong, to emotionally attach to me, protect me, not bully me, etc. The culprits I had to deal with were her, dad, and his narcissistic mother too. None protected me from the other. Dad stood up for me once, decades too late haha.
Another website said behaviors such as withdrawal, isolation were not good things to respond with family. However, I have done the things you mentioned, because there really is nothing else to do. You have to live with the fact that other family see you as ‘different’, a loner, and other negative connotations, simply by staying away from your tormentors at gatherings to protect yourself and you never were given much chances to actually enjoy their company anyway, having to defend yourself and stopping and isolating, as defending only resulted in ganged-up attacks.
Are there many other cases where there is mainly One chosen target person for them? Like my parents did with me, not protecting me from grandmother, or either parent, or brother. I do find it shocking that people are so unaware in noticing the subtleties, however small, in her interactions with me, because she does slip up -altho infrequently. when in others presence.
I cried when I found out, just knowing, but so relieved to Finally, finally know what the heck was going on in my sick family. Both parents are emotionally detached, dad, like most men was abused by his dad. Unlike women who are frequently sexually assaulted by a boy’enemy’. I don’t feel like I have any shame over it, but embarrassment just being around them. Of course, there is anger also, as it continues! My mother used to say I hated myself, wasn’t mad at her! This, like all other comments, she doesn’t remember saying, and am so saved by knowing the yrs she tried to make me feel crazy, self doubting, will never occur again. Prayers don’t help, nothing stops the repeat attacks, but having faith doesn’t hurt anyway.
That’s off topic. It is good that there is support and information online because there are many like me, who have no one who understands or helps the target person have faster victory over the life they’ve lived since day one.
God bless! and thanks again Jeni. Saving lives and souls, as this is not an easy thing to live through. Living with the fact that family would choose to treat you this way, get away with it, and not let it affect you too much.
Hi Jeni – thank you so much for this article. You have eloquently “summarised” a topic, which as you say, is so complex and convoluted, and yet it is remarkable how our experiences are so similar. If there is anything I can share – it is that there IS life after being caught in the clutches of a narcissist! I only realised, earlier this year, that my mum is a whopper of a NM – but had managed to extricate myself from her 16 years ago by emigrating. I am now more in control of the contact I have with her, never more than a couple of days together MAX. I, of course would prefer to keep it short, like say – a coffee/tea – hard to do when on different continents!
Kind regards,
Lu
hi jeni,
thank you for the article ,I’ve been dealing with a narcissist for 13 yrs. We are separated right now ,working on the divorce .i always feel as though I’m in his reach. The man knows how to manipulate and add plenty of guilt. He always made me feel as though if it wasn’t his decision than it wasn’t the right one. And the ups and down mood swings were completely unbearable. Along with alcohol abuse and mental mind games i was living in sheer hell. I was always walking around on eggshells so not to upset him. And he knew how to play on my fears as well. But needless to say i moved out witch was the 1st step .now i was wondering were i could get help for narcissist victim’s? Because i believe i might have fallen into the trap? Please help?
Hi Kat,
Congratulations on your decision and for taking a stand to move on. Such a gutsy thing to do.
The frustrating thing is that there are not many resources I can point you to. There’s hardly anything written about Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, although I’m sure this will change as more and more people recognise the fallout of NPD. There are some on-line support groups, lots of books on narcissism, but not much information for victims to either understand what’s happened to them, or find out ways to recover.
I can recommend Christine’s web site (see blogger above) at http://narcissisticbehaviour.net/
I hope this helps.
I’m starting to feel like Alcohol Anonymous, we need NARC Anonymous, or Narc Survivor, or something!
Hugs,
Jeni
Hi Jeni,
Thanks for your blog. I’m one day out of an 8 year relationship with a woman who systematically dismantled every aspect of my life. My closest friends aren’t talking to me anymore. I’ve lost 2 jobs I feel like I caught my toe on something 8 years ago and have been trying to keep from hitting the ground hard this whole time. This time I think and hope it is really going to end. Not because I don’t feel a strong love for her, we are simply in a repeating cycle that is destroying both of us. I feel a strong need to recapture a life with diverse friends and multifaceted interests, and a love of life.
Thanks,
Greg
Hello,
I am a survivor of a narcissistic grandmother. My family is all around dysfunctional, but this sudden realization of my grandmother’s narcissism is relatively new– in fact in the past week or so. I am wondering if anyone else out there went through the things I went through.
Growing up, I was torn between idolizing my grandmother and nearly hating her. I was very close to her growing up and spent a lot of time with her, but her behaviors toward me made no sense and were very inconsistent. She liked to dote on me– but her doting was to satisfy herself. She hardly ever asked me about what I liked or cared about– every “gift” she gave me was largely something she like or wanted. Basically, she was using me as a little toy to play out her fantasy. I think she wanted a daughter, but got two sons, neither of which lived up to her expectations of “fame and fortune” so she was grooming me to fill that role. The things I really liked or even needed were typically off the table. She LOVED to be thanked and she wanted people to give her attention constantly. Our whole family felt on edge when giving her holiday and birthday gifts, which she basically demanded. If it wasn’t big enough or sensational enough, she pouted like a two year old. She would deliberately put “thank you” cards in my Christmas gifts to be sure I thanked her for them.
My grandmother loves associating herself with people of wealth and prestige, even to the point that it is completely ridiculous. She acts like some local politicians and TV personalities are her personal friends and even embarrassed us in public on multiple occasions by trying to get their attention if she saw them in a parade or something. The person obviously didn’t know who she was, but she kept play acting like she was introducing us to her powerful friend.
My grandmother loved making me afraid of all sorts of things to control my behavior. I started having panic attacks and other obsessive compulsive behaviors at the ages of 4-5 because of her threats and scare tactics. She was especially obsessed with cleanliness…She is always convinced that I am going to die. When I went to college, she gave me a flu survival kit full of diarrhea medicine and aspirin instead of a normal gift. I didn’t get the flu.
She shames me and makes fun of me by bringing up stories from the past where I did something typical for a child, but she sees it as a flaw or weakness. Examples of this are: crying for my mother as a baby and holding a doll she gave me by the hair at the age of 2. (She didn’t like giving me real toys as a kid– only collectibles and then she got mad at me for trying to play with them like toys– imagine that!)
My grandmother only paid attention to me when it was to her benefit– or she got some recognition out of it. She never liked looking at pictures from my trips or vacations with me. She usually ignored me when I tried to tell her something about my life, but of course she spent hours telling me about herself– over and over again. She didn’t like playing games with me much either. I remember entertaining myself 90% of the time I was at her home growing up; my father went through the same thing as a child. I remember going on shopping trips where she would lavish on herself with nice things, but didn’t buy much for me at all, and expected me to almost kiss her feet if she bought me something relatively small.
Now that I am a married woman/adult, she is particularly awful because I am no longer around to feed her ego and she often tries to guilt trip me. She was mad at me for going away to college in another state away from her and said horrific things about my boyfriend (now husband) before she even met him just because she wanted me all to herself and couldn’t accept that there was another person in my life. Interestingly, now that my husband has a good job lined up and is about to become an officer in the Army, she has changed her tune. Now he’s the greatest (because he’s a somebody) and I’m the loser because I’m struggling to find a job.
My husband got a job in a town two hours away from her and she cannot accept that we are moving. (We already live an hour away). She called us both individually (very strange!) and told us about jobs she wanted us to take around the corner from her house, after we already informed her that our plans were solidified. I wonder if she was trying to play my husband and I off of each other for her benefit…
On Easter, I called her, and she really gave herself away as the narcissist she is. She openly said she is “possessive of me” and called me “her child.” She said, “I know I let your parents raise you, but you are really mine.” She also went on to say how she “worries” about me constantly and treated me like a little two year old. I am in my 20′s. I was so horrified by what I was hearing– she just cannot accept that I am an adult and an individual. She doesn’t approve of what I do, what I like, who I married, etc. etc. I am no longer around to help her enact her fantasy and she is mad. It is all about her– she doesn’t care what is good for me or what makes me happy. If she doesn’t get the glory, she treats me like dirt.
I am reeling with so many emotions, but right now I am just depressed and angry. Like I said, my whole family is dysfunctional and my own parents disowned me after I balked at their emotional abuse and controlling behaviors, so I am really at a loss right now. I feel like all the adults I grew up with used me to their advantage, but don’t really view me as an individual with thoughts, feelings, and dreams. It was all about them….
Oh, and she is particularly cruel about my weight.. because she was a stunning beauty as a young woman and I guess I don’t live up to her definition, even though I am certainly not unattractive or ugly.
My sister has been on antidepressants for 3 years and seems to be getting worse; she has left home and returned 3 times, she thinks she’s fat so she has stopped eating, she is so suspicious of everyone as though everyone is her enemy, she is so cunning and lies so well it makes you actually think whether you did do why she is saying, she twists stories its unbelievable, she doesn’t look after herself, only gives importance to ehat her face looks like and doesn’t look at anything else e.g feet, nails need cutting, it’s horrible! Every time you talk about her owing money she becomes very defensive and argumentative. As a family we just don’t know what to do?
This is how I figured out my (now) ex boyfriend is a covert narcissist; I have basically been crying on a weekly basis because of my being with him.
I felt like I do not matter, that I have been idealized and discard over and over again… I have been living up to crazy expectations and placed in impossible situations. Anything else than superb performance was looked down on as if I was a hopeless rat, and not getting his approval felt like a burn. How did he install this chip in my mind telling me: everything I do, I do accordingly to being his “perfect” girl friend. My needs, preferences, feelings and values were constantly overlooked or mocked.
He has pinched me to check my fat percentage when we see each other. I am not fat; I get comments on looking like a super model many times during holidays we have been on. I felt that he hated people complementing me. He objectifies me by for example offering one of his friends to kiss me on a cheek, like he just gave them a gift. He often camouflages criticism as being helpful. For example; teaching me how to work out my but many times a week. I did not ask for advice, and I exploded out of anger eventually.
He also criticized the way I talk, the way I dressed, my make up, my personality, my being messy, my general knowledge and my cleaning. My social smoking was completely out of the question, and I have even promised him a car if I light another cigarette. According to him I am a moody and over sensitive person. And he is walking on “egg shells” around me. And yeah… I am also maybe bipolar. How could I not see this sooner?
I am in my intensive master program now. I study economics in England. Doing quite well. Got 3rd best out of 80 people on my first mark. I feel he did not like that either. I was so tired. I started to drink in order to cope, and I had gotten rash all over my body and insomnia tendencies. I started to suspect that something was wrong with my head, and I got depress to the point that I would rather prefer to be dead sometimes. (I feel better now, and I would never actually do something to hurt myself).
How did I end up in a relationship with this man?
He had a crazy life style. He works as a teacher for 19 year olds in Costa Rica teaching fitness and physiology. We met down there. He is incredibly charming, handsome (trained, like a pro athlete) and always said the right things. He also is very intelligent and sophisticated of nature. His co-workers and friends look up to him. He is into extreme sports such as skiing and surfing. He cannot relax for a long time, and he is very competitive and fearless. When we met, he was quick to find out about how much I earned and if I owned my own apartment, and I guess I fitted his picture of a reasonable pretty, nice, and intelligent but gullible girlfriend.
Our relationship started quite sexual with exciting nights. It did not take long before we lived together in Costa Rica, and when we returned to Oslo, I moved into his apartment with him. I stayed in Oslo permanently while he travelled on business to Costa Rica for 1 month four times a year. He tried to squeeze a high rent out of me at first, but I refused to make myself a business proposition and paid reasonable rent. He instead made me pay most of the groceries or whatever he could. He would do strange things such as sell me something he had gotten for free without telling me…
Although we had an intimate and intense relationship, separation did not seem to affect him at all, and he was so surprised (or something), that I found it hard. I asked if he did not attach to people? He got furious and stunned.
I was heart broken as he would go down there for 6 weeks, and I did not feel he missed me at all. He was posting pictures of having the time of his life and being sad about returning to home. Meantime I was working full time and studying on the side, so I was piled down in work and had no time to be social. I felt he was also different when he got home, I do not know how exactly. I did not feel a true connection (ever) and I was unsecure if I could trust him. He yelled at me when I questioned him saying; “If you don’t trust me, we do not have a relationship any more”. He worked with educating something like 100 girls in bikinis who were madly in love with their teacher. He loves this attention. He craves attention from all people who “matters” or can give him higher self esteem or power. I also think he has been unfaithful. These are some of the hints;
1. He mocks guys who actually are faithful
2. When he would come home and we had sex, he said
“Oh, I did not realize you came, you come so silently” (compared to who?)
3. When I visited down there his roommate looked insecure when introducing me to the cleaning lady who asked who I was. He said “Um, Peters (my boyfriends)… friend” (why would he say to the cleaning staff that I was a friend? I cannot think of any reason but them having other girls in their villa)
Which my boyfriend heard, and just blew off in a tremendously clever way! I will give him that. But I realize now. I did not realize that “humans” could be so heartless until now.
He just pinched my side and smiled, with a little dance saying: “oh, so im your FRIEND now… haha”. And I let it go… Why?
He is exploitative, and always uses his position down in Costa Rica to get free stuff such as hotel nights, free food at restaurants etc. Saying to the businesses he will promote the store to the students, which I do not think he bothers to do. He also did this with a tailor, and he got commission on the money the students spent.
He is so rude to his mother, which is probably the reason he has become this way? To my family, he always acts like prince charming, so I cannot tell them his true nature…
Sometimes I am scared what his plans for me were. Do they plan? We have bought a house together which we were to move into in 6 months. What scares me is that he obviously wants me to doubt my psyche.
Once he also misunderstood me. I said. “If I was to be older than 60, I must start to live a more happy life.” I meant it as I feel like my heart and my head is hurting, and my physical health is crumbling (sometimes I leave the door open to my flat so someone can help me if I have a heart attack, probably over exaggerating but it hurts sometimes and I am a little scarred). He said “that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard you say”. He thought I meant that I would want to kill my self. And the sickest thing is; it felt like he was sort of happy with himself for this. I guess this is because he feels power? He is not worried for anyone but himself. If someone is in a sticky spot, he just criticizes him or her. No empathy, no possibility what so ever seeing two sides of a story. No compassion… He is really cruel, and you wont believe the way he talked to me after I cried about an abortion (yes, I had to have an abortion). He would rather go skiing than coming to help me deal.
I ended the relationship a week ago. Now, all I can do is read about this stuff. How did I get so codependent and addicted to another person? I want my happiness and my life back.
I just don’t know why I let him go in the nicest way someone can be dumped… I should be furious, right?
I am seeing a therapist now too. Hope to feel better, I think I will.
More please. Why and how do they pick their victims
This is a fascinating subject which requires some thought before a meaningful comment.
The statement “They will need support to remove themselves from their narcissistic relationship, and to not repeat the cycle of abuse in their next relationship”…. in a real way is easier said than done..For some, the relationship is marriage (spousal), daughter, son and other general family situations.
Thanks for generating some serious thought in my life…as I am able to really concentrate I will return for some personal resolution.
This is very interesting, I actually was searching on google about rehab and why my ex totally left me after a month in rehab. Then all of this Narcissistic information came up as well.
I was with my ex girlfriend for 4 years, Let me tell you it was an extreme rollercoaster. I am actually really stressed out and i am trying to get over it. I still blame myself for her breaking up with me. I now see that she might possibly be Narcissistic. Has anyone else supported someone and had them go to rehab and they tell you one day out of no where that they love you and care about you but they are no longer “IN LOVE” with you? I just have never met anyone that you do everything for and they don’t even show you compassion for what they have done to you. I am hoping one day she apologizes to me and that i can tell its sincere. But i guess she must be Narcissistic, judging by everything in the past and what is happening now. STILL LOST…………..
Hi John,
It’s no wonder you’re feeling lost. The more you find out about Narcissistic Personality Disorder the more confronting and overwhelming the information can be. It’s like experiencing Post Traumatic Stress over and over and over again.
From my reading and understanding, a narcissist cannot apologise, or if they do it will be with Sincerity Factor Zero. Waiting for an apology will consume all your time, emotion and energy.
Narcissists are unable to empathise with others and can’t see the need for an apology.
They are unable to acknowledge that they have said/done anything wrong because of their inflated sense of self.
Through blaming, the wrong-doing always comes from someone else.
They see no reason to apologise…
… unless the apology brings with it narcissistic supply.
Hi,
I have a Narcissistic mother. She has tormented me all my life. I am an only child. My mother used my cousin as a golden child. As far back as I can remember, she has always said that she hates children. She did not want to be around me. I spent the majority of the time in my room. She did not teach me things that a young women should know such as birth control. I grew up feeling unloved. As a teenager, I became pregnant which I know now was to be expected. I only wanted to be loved and accepted. I was taught to do what other people told me to do. One of my mother’s favorite saying was “Who put that thought in your head?” I thought that I could not think for myself. So I did and believed what others told me. So not knowing about birth control and believing others would look out for my best interests. I became pregnant and the abuse was at it’s worst. She commented almost daily about abortion and she was ashamed to be seen out in public with me. What would people think of her? After the baby was born she let on that she was doing all the care for my baby. She drove all my friends away and isolated me. My father also a Narcissist was an alcoholic as well. He passed away when I was 21 years old from cirrhosis of the liver. Both my parents believed that I was too stupid for college and would end up stocking shelves at a grocery store.
After my father passed away and my mother stopped working to live off life insurance money. I had a very hard time with no friends and no one to help me. I became extremely depressed and suicidal. After attempting suicide, I was hospitalized. I was treated for my depression with medication. It never helped any!!! I feel resentment now that the trained psychiatric hospital staff did not recognize the abuse that I was living with. I tried to explain that my mother was holding me back in life and that all my problems with maladjustment/lack of support system were her fault. They focused on me instead and told me in order to “get better” that I needed to develop a better relationship with her. You cannot have a real relationship with a Narcissist! They told me to stop assigning blame to others and accept it myself. We even attended counseling together; the counselor listened to my mother intently and believed all her lies. She kept coming up with ways for me to make my mother’s life easier. I was to pay half the bills (my child’s father had passed away and she got SSI survivors, as I had no job), clean the house and cook supper every day. I felt like I was her housewife. Yet all I did was never enough or done good enough.
Later in my life…I filed for disability. And I married a Narcissistic, Alcoholic man who was abusive as well. He would not hold a job and often moved his family in with us. I was the one that had to pay all the bills and take care of the house. I struggled to hold the marriage together for 9 years. We had 2 children together (both have Autism) I stayed in the marriage because I didn’t want my children to have a broken home. After I could take the abuse no longer I finally got divorced.
I have decided that my life is my life and I am the one in control. I moved over 500 miles away from all the abuse and bad memories. I have come to realize that my parents never loved me! My ex-husband did not love me either. He is now out of the picture. I still struggle to make friends and some days my depression is really bad. I wonder if I will ever have a good life with a loving family. For that to happen, I would have to marry into one. LOL My extended family have nothing to do with me. I am trying very hard to have the life that I have always dreamed about. I am currently in law school now and trying to do the best I can for myself and my kids.
Thank you for listening.
Hi Lisa,
I read your story and feel so strongly for you and what you’ve been struggling to cope with. There are so many elements that resonate over and over again with all victims of narcissistic abuse. One of these is the depression, and when help is sought the medical profession mis-diagnose, or more likely don’t recognise, the cause. So many people tell a similar story to you. I wonder sometimes at how many people being treated for depression have a link to Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Probably heaps!
The realisation that these people do not love us hurts so much. Even though everything about their behaviour suggests this, when the knowledge sinks in, it can be devastating.
The repeating patterns of behaviour, going from one narcissistic relationship into another, also happens all the time. The more we learn about how our behaviour contributes to the pattern, the better we can be.
I think it’s fantastic that you have finally worked out your boundaries, have moved away from the source of abuse, and applaud your steps towards a better life.
I wish you every success.
Jeni
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Hi, I stumbled upod this web page as I look for blogs regarding NPD. I have been going through a lot of troubles with a narcissist for the past 20 years. There were common circumstances where I find myself contemplating wether or not I have miscalculated what my sister insist upon me that she believes I did. When I disagree, she labels me, crazy as the most common. “you are imagining things, or I never said that” are her favorite reasonings. There are also moments where she would accuse me of stealing her stuff, as she found it missing, and rats it to anyone present in the room even with absence of proof, and when I react to this ridiculous accusation, I am labeled as too sensitive. She would also eventually pop into an argument that doesn’t involve her and point out the flaws I got, making me believe that I’m the one who was all wrong, despite both parties were wrong, and preach every single thing you should and shouldn’t be doing. Times where she would out of the blue insult me in public, or comment something irrelevant about my lifestyle are her routines. The more I ignore her, the more obnoxious she gets, even commenting out loud that why am I acting like I hate her with the most condescending tone she could come up with. She is very condescending anyway, and it just makes me sick that I’m developing a defense mech of self pity for I tend to be very aloof whenever she is around. I start to doubt myself with capabilities I used to think I can do like matters in school. I don’t know how I’m going to morally keep it up with an NPD younger sister. I really want to give them a taste of their own medicine.
Hi Danielle,
Sounds like your sister’s a classic. This is so hard to deal with, but when it’s immediate family I feel it’s extra hard as there is no easy escape. You can try and distance yourself from your sister, even if the boundaries are not physical but inside your own head, it can still be effective.
You don’t mention your parents. How do they react to your sister’s comments? One of the hardest things is realising that one, or both, parents may be exacerbating the situation by siding with the NPD.
I find the self-doubt is withering. But it’s hardly surprising if you’re constantly told you’re crazy/too sensitive/wrong. When you’re told all your perceptions of a situation are wrong it is extremely difficult to believe in yourself. One way that helps to stand back from the hurt is to identify each of your sister’s behaviours as they happen.
That’s projection.
That’s gas lighting.
That’s relationship manipulation.
It won’t make her behaviour go away, but by being able to label it, it means you’re sane!
Wishing you peace.
Jeni
Hi Jeni,
I’m sitting here in tears reading the responses and knowing I am NOT alone.
After finding out my N didn’t sign off his Facebook page and I found a long chat between he and his girlfriend (18 years younger than he) I went into a tailspin.
Of course he pulled out his narcissistic bag of tricks and I fell for it (at the time). Thinking I was the one who wasn’t there for him. He did agree to go into counseling and also told me I needed to go because I had “issues” as well. I really didn’t think I did at the time. Was I ever wrong. I went into therapy and through my once-a-week sessions have found out I’ve been married to a narcissist for 13 years.
Having found this out I’ve spent tireless hour looking up everything I can on the subject.
Where do I begin? His NPD is all emotional. He’s never been violent and I don’t know which would be worse (physical pain or the continued emotional pain). The emotional “frost” he carries with him is felt by anyone who enters the room. He can cut you off emotionally and act like you’re not even in the same room with him. He seems to go into a pout session when things don’t go his way or he feels he isn’t getting attention. All without warning.
Even my 15 year old finally came clean to me that she feels differently when he’s in the house than when he’s gone. She never comes out of her room when he’s home and I’m starting to see the effects on her.
He goes to therapy once every 2-3weeks and states he already knows what they’re talking about and feels he’s not getting anything out of it. When I urge him to find another therapist or go more frequently he just comes up with some excuse that maybe she’s getting around to the root of his problem. I honestly think he does not want help. He has no idea he’s a narcissist and, of course, I would never tell him that he is one.
My dilema now is do I try and gain coping skills with this narcissist? I absolutely (100%) DO NOT trust him whatsoever! I feel he still talks to his girlfriend (yes, they work in the same place).
Do I even want to try and work this out knowing I’d have to be mindfull of how he is? Some days I don’t want to put in the effort-it is so draining. I feel as though I’ve been sucked dry!
So confused right now but I’m going to tune in here often.
Thank you for reading.
M
I have lived with a covert narcissist for the past decade. She is suffering from other illnesses such as MS, which makes this even more difficult for me to deal with.
in 2008 we separated, we went through a hostile divorce. She had me removed from the home on a unsubstantiated domestic violence charge and left me homeless. I worked out of my home so it, for a few days anyway, left me jobless.
I believed everything we had together was real, to everyone we looked like the perfect couple, but I had lost my friends and family, and eventually became disassociated with new neighbors when we moved as she had gone door to door and bashed me in front of them. I had been asked to be on the social committee when we first moved into our new home, but after what she did I could not even face them anymore.
I was crushed in 2008-9 during this separation. My attorney called and said that she would not be able to make it to court as her father was dying from cancer and she could not make it there. I told him enough was enough, we just both needed peace, I told him to have her draw up whatever she wanted.
She dropped the order, called me and over several weeks we talked. Eventually she told me she had a separation agreement she wanted me to sign. It was very unbalanced and inf fact, she had her father place a substantial lien on our home, several months earlier pretending that it was a marital debt, screwing me out of 50k+ of the marital estate. It did not matter to me, I loved her and wanted her to have peace.
She got me to sign the paperwork and a notice of non appearance so I would not have to even take time off work. we signed the papers and went our separate ways, at least for a couple of hours.
She called me crying and wanted to meet in the park so I agreed, she asked me how we got here when we were so in love, and about the good times we had. We both broke down in tears, she played a song for me that touched my heart and we kissed for the 1st time in a year.
We decided not to move forward with the divorce and not file the papers.
For the next few years we danced, vacationed, she changed her name to mine, something she had never done before.
We had some issues trust issues between us. I caught her using “key logging spyware” on all of my computers to hack my passwords and find out what sites I was going to.
(I have been in IT for over 20 years, I know this was done for a fact and even confronted her about it where she somehow “blamed me”)
I thought most everything was good, all but the control and the lack of trust (for no reason) towards me.
We were vacationing, making love, dining out, financially secure, adding on to the home, kids were doing well, everything.
I decided to get healthy as I had felt so depressed for so long in this relationship and the separation, so I started to work out and quit smoking, I was really working on self improvement as I wanted to be with her forever now.
in mid 2012, something must have gone wrong for her because several months after we were divorced, I found a letter addressed to me in the trash folder. (she had also hijacked my Gmail account and I had to prove I was the rightful owner)
I stated to realize I was not respected or appreciated one but by her or her family. she had isolated me from everyone I knew and loved, (with acceptation to pre-approved friendships facilitated by her)
I felt like it was her shown her family were the guest stars and I was the idiot plumber that saved the day in the last 5 minutes of the show, but still being made to look like an ass.
So I started to write down my feelings. This went on for a few days on a brand new laptop computer she had no access to.
One night, she looked over and said, what are you writing, I said a letter, she said to who, I said to you so we do not fight, she said oh…… several days went by and she did not mention it again, I finally asked her if she wanted to read the letter, she said no. I said it is about us, my feelings and our relationship, she said I know, then she said I just don’t want to be married any longer.
Mind you, this was within 3 weeks from out last cruise, in a full sweet (our 15th cruise mind you)
She had me once again removed and restrained from the home (even after police had come and determined there was no problem, she filed with the court anyways) and eventually dropped off my car with my stuff at a local church.
I immediately moved out of the state, 800 miles away as I realized just how bad she had become. when I finally got into an apartment, several weeks later, I found a letter, written by her, addressed to me. Inside was a motion to convert the separation to dissolution, uncontested, not even knowing that I had been legally separated from her for 3 years.
She rammed everything through, and got the divorce.
However, I was able to file with the court that she was lying, that we had fully reconciled, that I could prove everything I was saying (she changed her name, money, 2nd wedding ring, vacations, dance lessons, cohabitation in the same bed. etc.)
It is in front of the court now and I believe I have massive case as in her response, she lied numerous times and I can prove that she has lied, to me, the court, the attorneys, the police, everyone.
It is not so much my broken heart, trust me that is bad enough when you are in love, or think you are in love because you are being manipulated. but the truth is, I lost much more than that.
All the people I was friends with through her, The time I missed with my real family as I was isolated and forced to choose her over them.
The sacrifices made to try and win her love when I felt things were not right, I knew something was wrong for many years but could not see anything anymore other than her.
It is like she stood in the mirror worshipping herself and I stood behind her (with others) unknowingly worshipping her as well.
She has over 100 pairs of shoes, a new nose job, orthodontics, breast implants, tummy tuck, artwork, jewelry and everything I have poured into our marital estate
Right now I stand to lose over $100k that I have painstakingly worked for, saved and invested, she stands to walk away with over $350k in marital assets, uncontested.
She made me believe all of her lies, I have photos that would blow your mind and you would think we are a couple obviously in love.
I have bank statements, emails, correspondence, letters, contradictions, etc. that support my position and I will need all of it as she has tried to convince everyone that I am the problem.
I have just kept my cool and let her hang herself.
I tried to figure out her kids in this whole thing only to realize, they see me as a monster as well, why not, she has painted them that picture behind my back.
She is desperate now to keep the lie alive as when the divorce order is rescinded, then she will undoubtedly have to settle for a reasonable amount or face the judge with the fraudulent lien her and her father filed against the marital properly (this can now be proven)
This in light of the failure to have me properly served, the numerous lies on her sworn statements, her answers to the motions filed where she contradicted herself numerous times the testimonies of strangers met abroad on vacations that I kept as friends, they all know the truth, my HR department knows the truth, my friends and family know the truth, her friends and family do as well, but they are victims to her NPD and her MS for that matter as she plays the victim with that so well.
Do not get me wrong, MS is a horrible thing, but she is using it to further her cause and is on a rampage knowing she is holding the “What can they possibly do to poor little old me, I have MS card.”
It is tall true. I am not perfect, I make mistakes like everyone else, but I am a good man and I was a great husband to her, but it was all for a lie.
She did not deserve 1 nanosecond of my time, EVER!
I find myself in tears sometimes thinking about the good times we shared realizing it was all just a lie.
I was a “goodtime” and a bank roll to her, that is all!
Once I wanted my life back, it was over.
I almost forgot the most important thing. “losing myself” has been the worst part. Trying to remember who I am, what I want, where I see myself, all gone.
It is nice that I can deal with this myself and do not have children with her (they were mine and hers from previous marriages and are all adults now) it allows me to face, every day. I wake up out of a restless sleep, wide awake, destroyed until I can convince myself it was a lie, sometimes it takes minutes other times it takes days (it used to be weeks)
Every day I wake up, I have to remind myself, I am me, this is my life and I live for myself and the people who love me.
This, and Gods grace, are the only thing that keep me from the bottom of a bottle, dead from overdose or any other of the dozens of ways I have thought of suicide and much worse.
I am lucky, I am strong in my faith and will overcome this.
I forgive her, but will never forget this.
I regret that I will not be able to care for her, in sickness and in health, as my fantasy/reality/illusionary marraige was once laid out for me.
I would have loved to be the right husband for her, I would have loved to be the right husband for anyone, but now that has all been destroyed for me. I am like her now, I cannot trust and without trust, you cannot have a loving relationship, at least not what I am looking for.
How do you love again after the one who you loved and thought loved you, has done something like this to you?
I am and always will be “broken”
It’s appropriate time to make a few plans for the long run and it’s time to be happy.
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KC:
Don’t give up, if you give up they win. I am in the biggest challenge of my life right now trying to get through a divorce from my husband after 12 years of trying to deal with his NPD. Until last year I didn’t know what it was or why nothing seemed to work to help fix our marriage. It was when I finally went to a good counselor AFTER the failed year and a half with the marriage counselor, that I finally figured it all out. I was stressed out to the max. I truly think he will not be happy until I’ve lost everything, including my job. I was so run down I was just reactive, and couldn’t think my way out of a paper bag after years of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, years of verbal, physical, sexual, emotional abuse. I was simply reacting like a rat in a corner and fighting like a rat in a corner. Once I talked to the right people and got help to help ME balance, and be able to step back and ‘see’ just what was going on, it all fell into place. It’s hard because you have to grieve the dream you had for your marriage. And accept that it was never real for the NPD spouse. Unfortunately I have not got him out of my world yet as I need his help for the place we have each week so I can do chores and get to work. So he has ample time to continue his rages and blaming, and diverting, and projecting. It still takes energy to put up the wall to deflect his issues. You must look to move forward, and yes, right now I don’t like any men, how could I trust one again??? I understand, but you also have to forgive yourself, you were a caring person. Not your fault. The NPD can not care and it’s best to just work to get them gone, so that you can move forward and find better things. I was always a very independent and tough person, but I have empathy and I am a fixer, so I just kept trying to fix things for way too long. It was kind of surreal, I couldn’t quite believe where I ended up, and then it seemed no one else really takes you seriously when you try to talk to family and friends. They care, they just can’t understand because many people have no real idea what this kind of PD can do to others. But you have to pick yourself up, get help if needed, and think life. I have days I think I’ll never make it out of this mess, but I keep working a step at a time. There is a good quote: “Never regret, if it was good then it was wonderful; if it was bad then it’s experience”
First of all i want to thank kristina for the post she made on how dr khakani helped her in bringing back her lover before christmas. At first when i saw the posting i was so happy and in the other hand so scared,That this might not be real, Then i decided to give it a try in which i contacted dr khakani and told him how my lover left me for another lady for the past 3years and i have been lonely and depressed without him,So i told him if he has helped anyone called kristina and he said yes, that was the lady he helped in bringing back her lover before christmas.i said good and i told him that if he can help me in bringing back my own lover,He laughed and said once i have contacted him that my problem will be solved.He said that my lover will be back to me within 24hours and do an unexpected thing for me. i said really, Truly when the 24hours was completed i got a text from someone saying am sorry then i decided to call the number i saw it was my lover Steve voice.i was so happy he was begging me on phone, That he is ready to do anything that will make me happy in life,So i told him to come over which he did,As he was coming he came with a brand new Car as gift I was so happy and made me had access to his account to prove to me that he is not going to leave me for another lady,Am so happy today and am also thanking kristina for posting this early. Dr khakani you are truly a man of your word. He can also make a barren woman get pregnant and have her own child, he can cure cancer, diabetes or any kind of disease or sickness and solve any kind of problems in this world. Friends you can contact dr khakani on his private khakanibestsolutioncentre12@gmail.com or cell number +2348062216903.
I would like to say how much my heart goes out to the people commenting on here. The three years of on again off again heaven then hell I dealt with my narcissistic ex girlfriend was horrible enough experience. The thought of a decade or two with shared children involved my heart just bleeds for you.
I really think that Narcisstic Victim Syndrome should be made a documented clinical diagnoses if it has not been already.
I won’t go into the whole in depth story of my encounter with a damaged individual and the deeply evil and sadistic behaviour those others on here will know without saying how mind bending and debasing the tactics the masters of manipulation are.
Its been over a year since we split for good (dumping me on christmas eve for the guy she’d been cheating on me with accompanied by a plethora of put downs and “i never really loved you” type comments and how funny her and her friends though it all was)
and its been about five months since she did the usual “come back tour” popping into my life at random out of the blue seeking supply the usual crisis and needing help..
When she did I had already finally accepted the fact of who and what she is but I was in the middle of my failing business going through liquidation and was too weak, stressed and run down to stand up for myself….I went straight into co-dependent mode showered her with forgiveness and praise we talked of friendship etc even shared a quick kiss…stupid me. I even began to doubt she was a narcissist maybe it was all in my head? maybe I was crazy imagining it like she always said?(gas lighting)
But I wasn’t… when my business finally folded I was devastated and I contacted her thinking I had a friend in her as I’d been there for her…wrong
She was not only not there for me she looked down on me the caring false self was gone completely no empathy whatsoever she put me down and criticised me when I was at rock bottom and then turned her back on me completely ignored my calls and msgs and two months later sent me a message acting as if she had done me a favour by turning her back on me when I needed her friendship most! gee thanks so much for that!
Anyway….
I’m having a really hard time letting it all go. My trust and faith in the inherent goodness in people is gone. I’ve isolated myself from my friends as she humiliated me in front of them and she made out I was crazy and they seem to have taken the bait because of course she’s an N a master of manipulation. I continually doubt myself and sometimes even find myself believing the gas lighting thinking maybe she’s not an N and its me…
I even went as far as contacting her and swallowing my pride asking for closure thinking maybe if we layed all the cards on the table I could let it go and live a normal life again without all this confusion.
But thats unacceptable to an N they can’t have you moving on! they want you to spend the rest of your life pining over them and mourning for what was and what might of been.
An endless supply of ego for them.
And Im really afraid that I might just be that guy…
Im still in love with the false self she showed me nearly four years ago even though I know now it wasn’t really her.
I even started to wonder if maybe i was the N!
But I know i’m not because after all she put me through I still feel sorry for her and it breaks my heart to know that she is very damaged and will never really ever feel love or true happiness…
Empathy
Does anyone know of any therapists in Australia that understand and deal with this kind of emotional, spiritual and mental abuse from these narcissistic people?
Does anyone else have this problem of accepting the fact that they are an N and then going back to doubting that realisation? Its closed loop I really need to break…
Luke, I do! I think “it’s not THAT bad” but then he has an “episode” and it alllll comes back to me!
Good luck to you!
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